Saturday, 1 December 2012

{broken} Macaroni (creamy) cheese {broken}

Dear readers...

Unfortunately I had to delete the original post. Although in the blogosphere a lot of people - and I include myself as one of them - love when something they wrote gets featured somewhere else (and by featured, I really mean featured, with the writer's comments about it, proper credits & a link to the original website, not simply copied & pasted), not everyone is the same... And I respect that.

So, although I had done everything according to the "blogger's code of conduct" - that some call common sense... - I ended up unintentionally upsetting someone, and as a way of showing my respect towards their work and opinion, I removed the Macaroni Cheese recipe...

I hate when I see a post of mine copied & pasted somewhere else. But I absolutely LOVE when I see someone add their 2 cents, talk about their experience trying something I shared etc... As long as you credit it with a link to this blog and a mention, go ahead. M&P is for sharing! =)


20 comments:

  1. I think the point is that you didn't ask first though. It was a personal recipe and you used her pictures without permission, even if you did link her. You should have asked first.

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    1. Hi Jennifer... I think we will have to agree to disagree. You see, I am a big fan of Pinterest. Can you imagine if before you Pin something to one of your boards you had to ask first? The whole concept of it would be over!
      But I appreciate that's your opinion and I am glad you shared it here.

      I have examples of other bloggers that came across a project of theirs that I featured on M&P and really liked it:
      http://www.mangoandpassionfruit.com/2012/10/storage-idea-from-embroidery-hoop.html
      http://www.mangoandpassionfruit.com/2012/10/make-your-own-falling-in-love-canvas.html

      But I guess the best feedback I had so far from a featured blogger was from Sarah - from this post http://www.mangoandpassionfruit.com/2012/08/baby-owl-hats.html - who emailed me saying "thank you sooo much for the sweet feature on your blog!! You totally made my day!!".

      I know everyone is different and whenever there is a copyright note making it explicit that permission should be granted before mentioning etc I make sure to do it. I am also happy to remove any content if it upsets the author, as I did as soon as I've been contact about this particular post. However, I will keep pinning & promoting every amazing idea I come across on the web. =) I guess so far I had only good experiences by running M&P the way I do and I am really happy with it...

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    2. Pinterest doesn't feature the recipe though. Just an image an a link to the original recipe, causing people to click through to the site. It is a totally different thing. It's sort of a visual search engine. Posting someone else's photo and entire recipe on your personal blog eliminates the NEED for them to click off your site.

      It's one thing to make a recipe, use your own photos, reword the recipe, and link back to the original, and another to simply copy and paste the entire post.

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    3. Exactly as Kim said. I'm a big fan of Pinterest and I am well aware of their terms and conditions. But again, like Kim said the photos on there link to the ORIGINAL post of the recipe, craft project, ect. Pinterest is a whole other thing and nothing like what you did Zaira.

      I wasn't commenting to start an argument. I was simply stating that what you did was not blogger code but fact stealing since you did not ask permission.

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    4. What you did is illegal and had she reported you to your hoster and filed a DCMA, you would have been risking your whole site. This isn't blogger code, its copyright infringement. Copyright does NOT have to be mentioned, spelled out, etc. Anyone that has completed 2nd grade knows that you cannot copy someone elses post, take their picture and pin it to yourself. Its completely irrelevant if someone, somewhere "enjoyed" being featured. I highly suggest you read this article by BlogHer before you end up on the other side of a lawsuit. I would consider yourself lucky that she asked you to remove it nicely. http://www.blogher.com/bloggers-beware-you-can-get-sued-using-photos-your-blog-my-story

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    5. Hi Trisha, thanks for your advice, but I suggest you save it for who wants or needs it. Feel free to say that what I did is illegal without even haven't read it. If you want to get into law etc go ahead, but may I remind you that in the UK defamation is crime and accusing someone of doing something they haven't done (I never claimed any rights over anyone's work) fall under it.

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    6. Its not defamation when its fact. You took a picture off of a copyrighted site and a recipe off a copyrighted site. You violated a very very simple to understand law...unless its legal to take things that dont belong to you in the UK. And if the original blogger, Courtney, actually agreed w/ your sentiment, she wouldnt have requested you remove it. So clearly you messed up. If this is the entire way you are going to run a website, at some point someone is gonna shut you off. You are gonna piss off the wrong food or DIY blogger by stealing, oh i mean featuring, their posts and pictures.

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    7. Hi Trisha, before I go on with this any further, could you just answer me honestly, have you read the original post I wrote?

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  2. Hi Kim, thanks for your comment! Did you read the original post? Doesn't sound like it, but I'll summarise.

    I wrote about a pretty full on day I had at work, on a film set, and how I had no time to write anything for the next couple of weeks as I was busy with my main job... But I was glad the author had shared that recipe, as it saved my night.

    I used the pic the same way Pinterest does, as a visual aid, and linked it to the original. On the text, I added my 2 cents to the recipe (as I didn't have all the ingredients suggested, I had to adapted it to fit my cupboards), I don't think I could have mentioned my changes to the recipe without saying what the original was...

    I mentioned the name of the author and thanked her for sharing such a tasty take on a traditional dish... And in any case, I said "for this and other lovely ideas follow this link for the original"...

    I know I can't please everyone, but how many times haven't we seen on Pinterest captions that say "nutella + 1 cup flower, bake @ 220 for 30 minutes" under a cookie picture?! I guess you're entitled to your opinion and I don't mind you sharing it here, but it's hard to judge unless you know what was here before, and as I had to delete it, I guess any further discussion seems really pointless.

    It was easy to simply delete the post, leaving no record behind, but I just didn't think it was fair with the people that I know visit this site often - it's not many, but I appreciate them coming back - to suddenly remove a post without any explanation. I believe the author is happy with how I dealt with it, as she got back to me not long ago, so I think this is issue over.

    ---

    Jennifer, as I said, agree to disagree... What you call stealing I call featuring. And what you are forgetting is that as soon as I was contacted, I simply did what I was asked to. If I was with bad intentions I would have ignored the request to remove it or simply not credited it from the start & claimed the recipe as mine. So please be careful when using such harsh terms...

    I am sure if the quote/feature had happened not in this blog, but in a major media vehicle leading to loads of exposure & business, the situation would be totally different. I am writer for quite a long time now to know I won't please everyone. And in any case, I rather have you coming back & posting on my blog than not having visits at all... So feel free to express your opinion on M&P always!

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  3. I'm happy you took the recipe in question down but I think that you made a mistake a lot of bloggers have made and many will continue to make.

    I find it amusing that at the bottom of this page I see: "© All rights reserved to Mango & Passion Fruit, Zaira Brilhante, 2012. Powered by Blogger."

    What can be nice is if you link to someone's recipe without using their image (unless of course you've asked ahead of time for the image). Another good way to get images is to look on flickr for creative commons images.

    I wish you luck and I see that you're in the UK. In the US we have the digital millennium copyright act... I'm sure the UK has something similar but basically it lets people sue you successfully when you use their pictures without permission. It's actually easy money... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act

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    1. Hi Jessica, I am assuming & hoping that before writing your comment you actually visited my blog a few days ago and read the original post instead of be judging me only by this thread.

      Also, if you took time to read M&P, you saw that each post/picture is individually credited. I include my own among these & even the ones I can't find credit for - as I often find pictures that have been clearly copied over and over without proper credit and I can't guarantee the site I found them on is the one that holds the copyright for it - so these have specific notes stating that.

      Every post is written by me, thus the "all rights" in the bottom. And if I quote or mention anyone's work on a post I do it the same way as thousands of other publications (be them blogs, newspapers & magazines) do. As I said to everyone before, thanks for sharing your opinion. It would be much easier for me just to delete the whole thing, but as with this entire situation, I prefer to go with what is right than what it is easy.

      Again and again, I did what the author of the recipe asked. She is apparently happy with it, as she emailed me tonight confirming it, so the issue was dealt with it.

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    2. There are three ways to get a photograph. There is not a fourth.

      1. Own the photograph (take it yourself or pay someone to take it for you)
      2. Get permission from the owner of the photograph
      3. Find a photograph and license it (creative commons/deadstock/getty images...)

      I obviously didn't read your post days ago. I don't even know what your site is about. I just know that your usage of the term "blogger's code of conduct" was funny so I popped my head in.

      Have a great weekend.

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    3. Hi Jessica,

      1. I appreciate you're entitled to your opinion and I respect it, but please do not ask me to share it.
      2. As I said to Cat below, when I used the term blogger's code of conduct I wasn't being literal, I am sorry if you read it as a quote, who follows M&P will know that this is my half-Brazilian half-English sense of humour... But as this is the first time you come here, I understand you didn't get it.
      3. I don't really understand why there are all these comments from people that haven't even read the original post, particularly after the picture & recipe in question were removed.

      But thanks for the visit anyway & I hope that now you came across M&P you take sometime to read the other posts... :)

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  4. It's wonderful that you respected the author's wishes by removing the content but as a blogger, I have to agree with the others. I'm not sure where this "blogger's code of conduct" exists but I do know that any image on the internet cannot legally be reproduced without the owner's permission, regardless of how it's used. I've filed several take down notices over the years from other bloggers stealing my images, the web host always agrees, it's copyright infringement.

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    1. Hi Cat, when I said blogger's code of conduct I wasn't being literal, I am sorry if you read it as a quote, it was probably my half-Brazilian half-English sense of humour... But I guess that didn't come across. I meant common sense...

      Everyone that publishes on the web knows that it is really hard to keep track of where your work ends up, things are being copied and not even being credited all the time. I have soooo many pictures of mine that have been reproduced over and over, and I stopped fighting it, as long as they link back to my site. I guess not everyone will share this opinion, but many do.

      I find it very unfortunate that a post on which I was actually thanking someone for sharing a quick & easy to make recipe that saved my night and in which I told my readers to visit that site for many more yummy suggestions ended up in such a headache for me... I didn't steal anything, I didn't claim the picture or recipe as mine and for the 100th time, I took it down as soon as I've been asked to... Thanks for your comment. Best, Z

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  5. I did visit and read this post before it was removed and the recipe and photo if used without prior permission is stealing, at least in the U.S. it is. Also in the U.S. any photographer owns any photos they take whether you pay them to take it or not. That's one reason you can't take a photo with a photographer's name or company on it (front or back) to any photocopy place, they and you can get sued for making copies. Same way on the internet. The photo had the watermark of the original blogger and that means she owned the rights to the photo so using it without permission, whether you gave credit or not is stealing. This isn't an agree or disagree topic, it's the law in the U.S.

    If you wanted to share the recipe you should have taken your own photo and rewritten the recipe, not just added text before and after. OR you could have posted part of the recipe and added a link for your readers to get the full instructions.

    As others have said this is NOT Pinterest and even if it was, Pinterest has a Copyright Policy that references and links to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998. It also states that you retain the rights to anything you originally post and they will side with the owner if someone infringes on their rights.

    This isn't the "Bloggers Code of Conduct" you jokingly referred to but it is Common Sense.

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  6. Hi Dee, thanks for your visit & comment. This is not only a reply to you but I ask

    EVERYONE THAT IS CONSIDERING TO LEAVE A COMMENT HERE TO READ BELOW before doing so.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

    "Fair use is a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work. In United States copyright law, fair use is a doctrine that permits limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders." (Wikipedia)

    For a very similar case to this one, please, click on the link above and scroll down to the section "Fair use on the Internet".
    I guess that covers the use of the picture.

    My post was the following:

    ===== // =====

    I've noticed it's been ages (seriously, way too long) since I last posted a recipe here! It's embarrassing, but this reflects the reality of my home. I eat, Mr. Hunter does the cooking.

    It's not that I cannot cook. If left on my own, I definitely wouldn't starve. However having grown up in a house with an Italian great-granny whose passion laid in the kitchen - a place that belonged to her and ONLY her, don't you dare having a go at it! - I never really had to (or could) learn to cook.

    //HERE USED TO BE A PHOTO//
    It's easy to make and it looks simple, but it's sooooo yummy! Photo Credit: XXXX (with a link to the website)

    To my luck - or some would say, unfortunately - I married a young male version of my great-granny. Olly (that's Mr. Hunter first name) is so good at it that if he ever get tired of Journalism, he could - and should - become a chef. On the down side, I am not only scared of attempting to cook my (in comparison) poor meals, but again, sort of don't have the need to, as he not only does it well, but absolutely loves doing it.

    This long introduction was to explain that I am a big fan of simple, tasty & quick meals. Whenever I have to fix something for myself, I like to try and experiment. This recipe of Macaroni Cheese with a twist, by XXXXX //link to website//, ticks all the boxes for me. And on days like today, after being 14 hours on my feet and with Mr. Hunter working overnight, it is totally a must try!

    //HERE A LISTED THE INGREDIENTS//
    //HERE there was a simpler version of the how to//

    ===== // =====

    I advise you and all food bloggers to read this Guardian article.

    Can you copyright a dish?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2006/mar/24/foodanddrink.uk

    I strongly believe that adding milk & cream cheese to macaroni cheese doesn't fall under "substantially different from anything that had been done before" (quoting The Guardian). This covers me quoting the dish on my post.

    Although I tend to reply to every comment on my blog in respect of my readers, I won't be writing anymore on this thread because I believe I've exhausted this subject with the comment above. If anyone is still upset about it, feel free to keep visiting here & leaving your opinion, the more visits the merrier for me and everyone is entitled to share their thoughts!

    Have a wonderful weekend everyone!!! :)
    xx
    Z

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  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  8. Zaira,

    It does fall under something that has been done and I'm sure many people have done it in different variations. However you posted my PICTURE & RECIPE in it's entirety. It had my website on the picture, and is both copyrighted by my blog as well as my image host. Which is why I asked it to be removed. If you had asked permission it would have been different. You simply added a little paragraph to my post. That DOES NOT make it your work. I'm glad you took my work down and I appreciate it. I've had many people use my pictures and say go here to see the recipe linking to my page so they could see it. What you did was give me credit, however why would anyone even go to my site to see anything when you had it all on display? Either way, it wasn't your work and you did the right thing removing it. I just wish you luck and to be extremely cautious in the future.

    Best,
    Courtney

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  9. Hi Courtney,
    I never claimed your work as mine and as you can see under the "fair use" doctrine, one can use someone else's picture in a lower resolution as promotional material as long as they add reviews, comments, critics... Exactly what I did.

    I was just explaining to everyone that left a comment before you accusing me of stealing that what I did is according not only to what I call common sense, but totally legal.

    I can also answer your question why someone should go to your website after reading that one recipe. Because they liked it! Because they want to know if you wrote anything else that they might ALSO like. It seems that you don't give yourself as much credit as you should. You have such a nice site with an incredible variety of recipes. If new readers get to find more about your work through one of them, why should it be such a big deal? But in any case, it's up to you, not me, to choose how you run your business...

    That leads me to my next point. It's up to ME how I run M&P. I took your material down not because I had to, but because I saw NO PURPOSE in upsetting anyone. On the other hand, everyone that seems to have visited this post & left a comment apparently found my website through you, what I can't quite understand is how that could have happened, as you haven't featured anything of mine.

    In any case, best of luck with your work too. And as always, I will make sure I run my blog according to what I know is right. I am not perfect, I don't mean that I won't ever make mistakes. But regarding this issue, I have 100% peace of mind that I dealt with it to the best of my abilities.

    I am not aiming for universal acceptance or support. If I, with any of the posts I publish here, "brighten the day" of one person a day I will say that M&P achieved its goal.

    PS: I only replied to this message because it was from you. As I said before, everyone is free to leave their opinion here as much as they want. The more people reading M&P & commenting the merrier for me... But this subject is closed for me and I will carry on looking after the rest of my blog.

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